A lil' help to make interesting combat.

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    • A lil' help to make interesting combat.

      'Aight, I got a problem... How do I make it so that combat is interesting? I recently GM'd three sessions of Shard with some friends (It went wonders, by the way, More on that later), and the combat seemed a little... lackluster... Which is how it is with my friends... unfortunately.

      See... We're all very smart, mathematically and otherwise, so when it came to combat, and I showed my players the maneuver location table, they kind of glanced at it, and then forgot about it. This isn't the main problem, though, most of my players think in numbers. What will grab them the most amount of damage in one hit, and many of them realize that, in order to get the most amount of damage, they need to have a lot of dice (can you see a very combat heavy group here?), so the second thing that happened was they didn't find that the maneuver location table added anything that would get them the most damage, when a "Normal" attack would net them more damage, and possibly even destroy the enemy. This, on top of bundling actions, lead to some uninteresting combat with high numbers in damage, and the obliteration of some foes that I had made within the limits of the game that were supposed to be tanks.

      And then there were times when nothing happened. They'd grab their dice, they'd throw them, and the enemy would defend against it all. It didn't take them long, though, to realize that grouping up on one guy would rip him to shreds like none other. or if it was one-on-one, a "fair" fight, they'd throw 1-2 successes, and the enemies armor would absorb it all, but it would leave them completely open for the enemy to attack.

      And finally, there were points when the enemy would just obliterate one person! I mean, that's how I designed the enemy to play, but I didn't want to outright OBLITERATE the player (having to bend the rules so that it was more subdue damage then fatal damage, as I don't want to actually KILL the players... too quickly at least...), but it would take one of the players off guard, and throw that player out of the fight for a good portion of it ("well, if you need me, I'll be downstairs" was a phrase I heard at two different occasions).

      Also, I'm in a group that doesn't like going up against lots of weak enemies to try to give them a challenge, they think it doesn't make much sense that the players are all Bruce Lee, while the GM's "Critters" Are all the henchmen just waiting to get their tail kicked. So I gotta find "Grunts" that are better then grunts, and "Elite units" that are slightly better then elite units. The problem here is, I sometimes want to make an epic fight where the enemy is just so darned better then the players, that it DOES take the entire party to take HIM out. unfortunately, the times that I try to do this, the party all just gang up on him (The only one there), and just blow all of their actions making him defend, and if I DO go first, then I gotta take into account that they're going to blow all of their actions making him defend!

      I'm still learning, I don't want to metagame and make realizations that players have spent all of their combat actions, then NOT attack them, but at the same time, I don't want it to feel like I'm PICKING on the person who used up all their actions either (though I still want to learn him a lesson, but those lessons usually end up in "well... You're unconscious now.")

      Oh, and no one really reacted to anything else, they'd all just let the hit's flow, and wait until their turn to act... But I don't think that I showed them that mechanic very well.

      So... I guess my main points are:
      1) How do I get my players to use the Maneuver location chart more often
      2) How can I make enemies that can wall decently, but not so decently that nothing happens
      3) How can I mod the game a bit to make the stamina the players have stretch out longer?
      4)How do I make enemies that are evenly matched to the players, but won't be obliterated when grouped up on, or obliterate the players outright?
      5)and How do I teach my players (without killing them, or brutally maiming them) to possibly save more then ONE action to defend.
    • RE: A lil' help to make interesting combat.

      Hey Stubs!

      I've got a lot of ideas to give you concerning this, so here's a lovely two-part post for you!... Yayyyy!

      Fighting "smarter not harder" is something that folks have to take time learning how to do right, and that can apply to actual martial arts combat in real life, just like it can in games that are tailored to recreate the flow and feel of martial arts, which is what our combat system attempts to do... If players are merely just trying to be "damage hogs" in combat,...then they might actually profit from being shown examples of why they should not underestimate the elegance of the martial arts system... Though that may indeed require them to have their butts handed to them by the NPCs from time to time (not artificially, but through the natural way the system works), well,...that's what Story Points are for,...to keep a character from simply getting slaughtered in moments when an NPC gets the upper hand, which they will do, from time to time... If they have to burn through enough of Story Points pulling their bacon out of the fire, they'll start becoming far more tactical when combat time rolls around,...and may be more tempted to take advantage of the nuances offered by the Martial Maneuvers and the flow of combat allowed by enjoying Reactions... Remind them that the combat moment is about "cinema" not just about how much damage they can dish out...

      Here's the methodology that I usually take when running a combat using the Shard RPG system:

      1. As a GM, make sure that, when facing numerous opponents, you use the NPC combat tracking sheet to carefully record the number of Combat Actions the NPCs roll for themselves, as well as their order of Initiative as compared to the rest of the players... It sounds like you are already doing this, but the reason I mention it's importance is that nothing compels players to want to react (use Combat Actions as Reactions) as much as having the NPCs use their own Combat Actions to react consistently each time they have a chance to do so, thus slowly picking away at a the PCs' defenses, and possibly getting a good hit in now and again...

      2. Use NPC reactions as a chance to show off the cool effects that can be achieved when using the special Maneuvers on the Maneuver Location Table... Nothing inspires PC usage of those maneuvers more than having an NPC use such a maneuver effectively against them... I mean, dude!!! Look at Stun!!! It takes away a number of an opponent's Actions for that round, and can carry over into the next! Throw/Sweep can knock a target out of fighting range, and can force them to use extra Actions to get up AND to close distance again... Internal Damage and Severed both cause continuing damage due to blood loss... A Bind/Grab not only forces the opponent to have to Escape, but also sets the victim up for a easier Hold/Lock that allows for damage to be taken every round without the practitioner having to waste any further Actions to do so... And finally, Full Knockout simply ends the fight with that particular person right then and there...

      3. When describing the combat as it's all going down, it's important, as a GM, to emphasize a "flow" that encourages the use of reactions by not only cinematically describing the events of the person whose turn it is in Initiative order, but also encouraging each person (in order of Initiative) to decide whether they'd like to React or not... After the person whose actual turn it is performs the action (or combination of bundled actions they wish to do) at that moment, I look at each player in turn and pointedly ask "Would you like to React to that?"... If they don't, I move on to the next person in order of Initiative and ask them the same thing... If it's an NPC who is in the next order for a Reaction, I always make it a big point of taking joy in showing how the NPCs' Reactions move the cinema of the combat along (thus making it apparent that Reactions on the part of the PCs would do the same, if not more!). In addition, be sure to remind your players that they can use their opportunity to React to actually attempt to defend someone other than themselves; literally using that moment to make a defensive roll on another target's behalf, if they are next in order of Initiative (and still have Actions remaining)... Because it is a Reaction, they can't actually stop someone with an earlier Initiative from performing their chosen action/attack, but an effective defensive roll will intercede in time to protect someone from taking the damage from such an attempted attack in the nick of time... Pretty dramatic stuff!

      4. In the end, however, you can't really (and shouldn't really) "force" the PC to take Reactions or choose to use the various Martial Maneuvers for different effects. After all, saving one's Combat Actions and insuring you have the most dice to roll to allow yourself to really hit with a "bang" is certainly a valid "bare bones" tactic in some circumstances (especially if you're new to the system, and haven't had the opportunity to grow comfortable taking the chance with all the little nuances of the combat systems)... But we've done our best to balance the system (taking into account the various statistical probabilities that seem to come with rolling dice-pools to achieve successes), so that all the additional nuances do have a place in the fun of the combat itself, and are really excellent alternatives to approaching combat from the "bare bones" approach every single time... If you really want to encourage them to get out of that basic combat mentality, consider offering them occasional dice bonuses for attempting cool maneuvers that might lead to an excellent cinematic moment... Reward them for fighting "outside the box" they currently seem to be more comfortable in...

      5. I find it important to let the players "fail heroically" from time to time when the dice just aren't on their side.... There will be games like that,...and players will indeed be defeated... When that happens, make sure you narrate the battle in a way that their loss isn't cinematically anti-climactic... Make their defeat or their severe wounding important to the story, and a motivation for the comrades to step up to the plate in their defensive/avenging duties... As far as the issue of players ganging up on an enemy, well,...that's gonna happen (especially if it is a powerful enemy, and the players are wise enough to do so)... It's a natural tactic to take, and shouldn't be discouraged, but neither should a wise GM allow them to totally "punk" said NPCs all the time, especially if there is a chance to make the battle a more entertaining one for the players... You're the GM! Feel free to add a little more "oomph" to the NPC enemies right then, on the "fly", if you think the players are defeating them too easily... Following the dice strictly is nice,...and utterly "fair", but that doesn't mean the outcome will be fun either... Sometimes fair is boring... It's your story,...make it interesting, both for yourself AND for your players... If that means "souping up" a villain a little at the end to make the battle last longer, do not hesitate... Go for it... Just be sure not to do it in a way that makes the players feel like their being purposefully abused by you, or worse, rendered powerless and "un-heroic". Likewise, if the fight seems to be dragging on a bit too long because the NPCs are holding their own a bit too well, then decide on some spectacular way for them to "lose it" at a cool key moment... Let 'em fail so the players enjoy the thrill of victory... The bulk of NPC villains and their cronies are generally just bit characters in the story, after all...

      (CONTINUED IN NEXT POST)
    • RE: A lil' help to make interesting combat.

      (CONTINUED FROM LAST POST)

      As far as your specific questions/points go:
      1) How do I get my players to use the Maneuver location chart more often?
      Hopefully I gave you a few good ideas about that above...

      2) How can I make enemies that can wall decently, but not so decently that nothing happens?
      There's really no "set" way to do this.... Making decent NPCs just takes some practice... I'm still practicing doing that myself, even now! In a game system where victory can become defeat, and vice-versa, at the drop of a hat (based on the luck of the dice, mixed with a sudden tactical insight), it's hard to tell what works and what doesn't till you're in the heat of battle, and that goes for NPC bad guys as well... That's why I recommended fudging their statistics a bit if you suddenly find that it's necessary to keep the battle interesting, and fun... The story's more important than the rules...

      3) How can I mod the game a bit to make the stamina the players have stretch out longer?
      That's easy,...if you're really concerned that battles end too swiftly, or are too deadly, simply choose not to use the damage multiplier bonus based on additional successes that get through an opponent's defense successes... Do that, and immediately the game will seem much less "deadly" all around, I assure you... Insuring that you and your players are always taking into account Armor value is important too, since armor eliminates a certain amount of Stamina loss each time they are hit...

      4)How do I make enemies that are evenly matched to the players, but won't be obliterated when grouped up on, or obliterate the players outright?
      Well, like I said above, there's no "set way" to create NPCs that you can always assure will fit into the molds you describe... "Evenly matched" in the SHARD system simply means that the NPCs are generally throwing around the same amount of Action Dice as the PCs when engaged in combat...and perhaps that they have similar armor protection (and are thus losing their Stamina Levels at about the same rate)... Unless they are heavily "armored up", or have the power to have an inordinately large number of Combat Actions (which usuanlly means they have more Action Dice than each individual PC fighing them), pretty much anyone is gonna be at an extreme disadvantage if they are ganged up on... That's just the way it usually works in real life... (which is why I recommend tweaking NPC or even your own dice rolls as necessary if you find the battle's becoming tedious or exasperating in some way). Random dice rolls are just that,...random, and the rules may be working perfectly and still allow for unexciting and tedious results from time to time. Just take heart; you're in charge,...so feel free to work around those issues as best befits the cinematic experience you're trying to create for your players...

      5)and How do I teach my players (without killing them, or brutally maiming them) to possibly save more then ONE action to defend.
      Sadly, there's really no way for them to learn this lesson other than the ever-popular "school of hard knocks",...but remember, there's always the aspect of SHARD combat that caters to simply being subdued during defeat (as opposed to being maimed, killed, or knocked unconscious every time...). SHARD combat is already tailored to favor Subdue damage over regular damage (it defaults to more Subdue when odd amounts of damage are taken, purely Subdue damage maneuvers have lower difficulty modifiers)... And although certain lesser NPCs are often meant to be simply slaughtered and tossed aside, you should feel free to let characters and NPCs be subdued and "carried away in chains", still wide awake (if worse for wear) and allowed to interact, but subdued according to the rules and unable to continue attacking... There are plenty of opportunities for cool role-playing here, which should not be overlooked for the sake of "hack and slash" battles where people merely die right and left... Like I said above, give the players the cinematic opportunity of being "heroically defeated" and perhaps dragged back to their enemy's lair for further role-playing fun... Just make sure to give them the chance to have a great time figuring out some non-combat way to get themselves out of the mess, and eventually get even...

      Hopefully this has given you some good ideas Stubs!

      Let us know how this works out for you!

      Scottie ^^