Body Armor, aroo?

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  • Body Armor, aroo?

    So, I am building a Polar Bear and I get Body Armor as an Animal Ability:

    Template Vigor=3, Initial Body Armor score=2

    I don't get it.

    From the other Animal Ability thread, I thought that Animal Abilities were equal to their associated characteristic. Here, that seems to be off. Both that thread and the Quick and Dirty character generator indicate that Body Armor is a 'special case'. I see that the cost of Body Armor is equal to the character's Vigor, but what if I increase my Vigor to 8 at character generation (Heroic campaign)?

    What is my Body Armor score? Does it stay at 2? Does it increase to 8? (Assuming I spend no Ability points on it)

    I am including the Body Armor description here cause it doesn't say anything about Body Armor being different at character creation: (pg 74)

    Body Armor –(Vigor)
    The character has a tough hide, thick fur, a shell,
    etc., which naturally helps protect them from physical
    attacks. For every point of body armor, the character
    deducts one point from physical attacks on a per-attack
    basis, if the attack was successful. The cost for each point
    of Body Armor is equal to the character’s Vigor. Below
    are some recommended amounts of armor for various
    animals, though the animal template you have chosen
    should provide specifics.
  • RE: Body Armor, aroo?

    Rearranging to help answer this thread, my man. ;)

    Ok,, the "special case" aspect is in bold

    Originally posted by mouseodoom
    Body Armor –(Vigor)
    The character has a tough hide, thick fur, a shell,
    etc., which naturally helps protect them from physical
    attacks. For every point of body armor, the character
    deducts one point from physical attacks on a per-attack
    basis, if the attack was successful. The cost for each point
    of Body Armor is equal to the character’s Vigor.
    Below
    are some recommended amounts of armor for various
    animals, though the animal template you have chosen
    should provide specifics.


    Ok,, now your question;

    So, I am building a Polar Bear and I get Body Armor as an Animal Ability:

    Template Vigor=3, Initial Body Armor score=2

    I don't get it.


    on the template, a total of 6 ability points were used to buy two points in Body Armor. (vig + vig = 2 pts)

    Side note: bearing in mind the templates give you a little price break on ability points, so don't do the math, it may confuse you more,, or not, what's important here is that UNLIKE other Animal Abilities, every point of Body Armor costs you your vigor score.


    From the other Animal Ability thread, I thought that Animal Abilities were equal to their associated characteristic. Here, that seems to be off. )


    Reiterating to drive it home ;) Animal Abilities are equal to their associated characteristic, EXCEPT for Body Armor, since Body Armor is not a roll, or dice bonus that gets added to a roll, but rather points that are taken away from damage you receive (per sucessful attack against you) you must buy the points up at the price of your Vigor per point.


    Both that thread and the Quick and Dirty character generator indicate that Body Armor is a 'special case'. I see that the cost of Body Armor is equal to the character's Vigor, but what if I increase my Vigor to 8 at character generation (Heroic campaign)?.


    nothing, it will not cost you extra since it was a part of the template to begin with. IF for some reason you built from scratch (Ie, you wanted to play an animal that had no template made for it yet) and your vigor was 8, it would cost you a total of 16 points to get that Body Armor up to 2 or 24 to get it up to 3.

    What is my Body Armor score? Does it stay at 2? Does it increase to 8? (Assuming I spend no Ability points on it)


    Yes, it stays at 2

    Does that help?
    I'd rather kiss Satha Vortoc on his sything death-hole

    The post was edited 2 times, last by ZClip ().

  • RE: Body Armor, aroo?

    Well,..it's all about the order things are done in the Step-by-Step process. Essentially, you know that you get whatever is on the Animal Template when you pay for it in Step#3,..which means you get the starting Body Armor value of 2 (as an aside,..and something a starting player doesn't necessarily need to know, is that the value is 2 because it's worth 6 of those Abilty points the Template costs you. Why? Because the Polar Bear's starting value for Vigor is 3, and as per the Animal Ability's description, "The cost for each point of Body Armor is equal to the character’s Vigor". The starting Vigor for the Template that you get for its purchase is 3, therefore the cost of two points of Body Armor is 6. This cost is a part of the total Ability point cost you should have already paid for the Template, so don't worry about that.)

    However, once you've purchased the Template, it's time for you to move on to the next step, Step#4, which is using the rest of your Character Points to buy up your Characteristics, point-for-point (within the limitations imposed by the game's chosen Power Level). If you do as you were suggesting, and increase your Vigor to 8 (costing you 6 of your remaining Character Points), though it will have other beneficial effects (such as increasing your Stamina), it will actually make it more expensive to increase your Body Armor points in the next Step. Why? Because Body Armor is indeed a special case, as explained next.

    AFTER finishing Step#4, It is now time to move onto Step#5, where you may either buy up your Animal Abilities, or buy more of them (with the GMs permission). One thing I WAS NOT very clear on, and for that I apologize, was that, though I DID mention that, after buying up your Characteristics, you should adjust the Animal Abilities given to you on your Animal Template (which you should have transcribed onto your Character Sheet) by the same amount (i.e. if your Agility went up to 8, then your Natural Weapons should be adjusted to 8 as well),..but what I FAILED to mention, or make clear, was that there were some exceptions to that rule, notably for the special cases of Amphibious, Body Armor, and Body Pouch. In truth, NONE of these are truly LINKED to any Characteristics (meaning that they do not raise automatically if any Characteristics are raised. I'll be fixing that typo in the table by Body Armor right now. During this Step#5, if you wish to raise your Body Armor by one point, as the description for Body Armor states, "the cost for each point of Body Armor is equal to the character’s Vigor", which means, that if you raised your Character's Vigor in the previous Step to 8, then it will cost you 8 Ability Points to raise it one point to a 3, and 8 more Ability Points to raise it one more point to a 4 (though you'll have to get the GMs permission, since this seems to take it out of the natural range for bears, 1-3, as noted on the table under the description of the animal ability).. If you had NOT chosen to raise your Vigor so high in Step#4, then improving your Body Armor score would be less expensive (meaning you'd take less damage per hit you take), but you'd have a weaker Stamina (meaning any damage that gets through your natural armor, or any armor, would hurt you more).

    I will be attempting to make this MUCH clearer in the revised Character Creation Chapter,..worry not...

    Scottie ^^
  • RE: Body Armor, aroo?

    Originally posted by Scott Jones
    there were some exceptions to that rule, notably for the special cases of Amphibious, Body Armor, and Body Pouch. In truth, NONE of these are truly LINKED to any Characteristics (meaning that they do not raise automatically if any Characteristics are raised.


    This is completely correct (like I need to confirm the word of Scott, or something) and overrides what I said, WHEN i said..

    Animal Abilities are equal to their associated characteristic, EXCEPT for Body Armor


    (sorry Mouse & Scott) That should, in fact, read;

    Animal Abilities are equal to their associated characteristic, EXCEPT for Anphibious, Body Armor, and Body Pouch
    I'd rather kiss Satha Vortoc on his sything death-hole
  • RE: Body Armor, aroo?

    O.K. for the sake of "cleanup" on the forum, consider this matter resolved by the recently changed Character Creation chapter, available for download on this site.

    I shall now lock this Thread, so no more posting on it is possible. If there are further issues concerning this particular item, feel free to start a new Thread.

    Scottie ^^